Last time on the interview series I talked to writer and editor Chantelle Aimée Osman about finding a team for your writing and rethinking rejection.
Tobie Carter is a fiction writer living in TX with her husband and two children. She writes adult suspense and contemporary romance and also co-hosts the bi-weekly #ThrillsandChills chat with Kelly Malacko on Twitter. She fell in love with reading in seventh grade when her teacher made her read And Then There Were None by Agatha Christie. Her love of writing didn’t appear until a story popped into her head while rocking her daughter to sleep, and since then, she’s written four stories and has no plan on stopping.
Kelly Malacko has a background in Journalism and Communications but focuses on writing fiction now. A boxing coach during the day, she balances writing at a computer with push-ups and sprawls in the gym and hopes her words hit as hard as her left hook. She is the mother of two girls and a six-month-old Airedale Terrier and is married to a police officer who barely flinches when she plots crimes and asks for his input.
David Gwyn: [00:00:00] I'm sure you've heard this one before the genius author pens a book in a month, or maybe you've seen a movie where a writer goes from struggling artists to fame in a matter of 30 minutes of runtime after a dramatic montage of typewriter, key punching and empty whiskey glasses. While swirl of cigarette smoke, wafts out a window, overlooking a city landscape.
They continue to wallow in their sad poor lives because society tells us the only way to write a good book is to be utterly demolished. I'm here to tell you that's not the reality. Hey everyone, I'm David Gwen. I'm on the path to make writing my full-time job. Follow me on my journey. As I share interviews, craft advice, as well as efficiency and productivity for writers who take their stories seriously, it doesn't matter if you're new to writing or a season.
As long as you're a writer, who's serious about your craft. This podcast is for you. So be sure to subscribe. There's a secret power that writers have that I'm just learning about, but it's something that has come up over and over in the interviews. It's the power of [00:01:00] community, regardless of what type of writing you're doing.
Building a community around yourself can be really beneficial. See the American society of training and development did an accountability study that revealed people have a 65%. Completing a goal if they commit it to one person. But if you have a specific accountability meeting with a person or group that they've committed, that goal to their chance of success increases to 95%.
So now you're probably thinking, well, how do I find a community? Where are my people? Well, that's the same question my guests ask themselves today. We'll be talking to Kelly Malaco and Toby Carter, Kelly and Toby created a biweekly Twitter meetup of thriller suspense. Writers. It produces a lively discussion between aspiring as well as some established writers in the genre while you're listening to the first part of the interview, think about how they decided on this community and why they felt they needed it.
Let's hear from Kelly first.[00:02:00]
Kelly Malacko: We actually were both kind of suspense writers or thrillers. We have sort of a similar background in our, in this kind of books that we write, or we had Tobie has kind of expanded her horizons a little bit since we first met I just thought that the writers community on Twitter was so great.
But there wasn't really a lot of kind of genre, specific writers in my circle. And so I reached out to a friend of both of ours Jessica Payne, and she has the moms writer's club chat. And I just asked, you know, I'm thinking of doing something kind of similar, but just for thriller suspense.
And. Mystery writers. And she had said that till we had restarted to her and was thinking of something similar. So it was, it kind of just worked out perfectly. And then when Toby and I met, we really clicked. And yeah, so now we've had, we just had our 20th chat last week.
David Gwyn: Yeah, [00:03:00] that's awesome.
Okay. Did you notice how they found that need for a genre specific group? If you've been listening to my podcast for a while, you've undoubtedly noticed how important writing groups are to writers. Allison Buccola just a few episodes ago, Bianca Marais from a few before that, and even literary agent Amy Elizabeth, Bishop credits a lot of her client's successes with the formation of a writing group.
So next I asked Toby what their goal was for the chat. Here's what she had to say.
Tobie Carter: I think the biggest thing was that I hadn't been plugged into kind of anything yet.
I know a lot of people had their critique groups and I, I was still not in a critique group. I was fairly new to writing. Just paint actually was here with me in town. So she was probably my only source of like publishing knowledge and all of that. And I was so learning about hope for other community.
I just, I felt like it was something that we [00:04:00] needed to do to, I don't want to say, bring everybody together. Not only that, but to learn from each other. I mean, but like I said, me being new, I'm still learning every single day and being able to tap into what all the other authors that we brought into this chat.
What, they've just all the knowledge that you've given us has just been immense. I think that's the biggest takeaway we've gotten from this girls and Chels chat and what we're trying to help others do as well.
David Gwyn: Yeah, I feel like you nailed it for me, which is like, these conversations are kind of twofold.
I think first, you know, you meet really great writers in the genre. Both like aspiring and, and, and I mean, published authors, I saw Allie Reynolds was, was in the chat last time, like sharing some, some ideas, which I thought was so cool. And so you get to meet and follow. People from that community. And then the other part of it, which is what you said, which is, I feel like I've learned so much about [00:05:00] writing, especially genre specific.
Which is, which has been so cool. Is there anything that you felt like has come up throughout these chats that you can share that is like something that kind of made you realize something different about the genre or help develop your, your writing a little bit better? Kelly, do you want to go first?
Kelly Malacko: , I can't say that there's anything specifically. That I pick up, I definitely add to my reading list every week, because everyone's always suggesting great books, which I love. And I think like Tobie kind of nailed it when she was talking about why we do this. Like we're not professionals by any means we're kind of learning too.
And every week I think I pick up something that I'm like, You know, I either take a screenshot of it or I write it down quick and like stick it on my computer screen. Yup. That was really helpful. Yeah. Things as we go. So, so that's really [00:06:00] nice. I don't know, is there anything specific for you Tobie that you've like really picked up?
Tobie Carter: You know, I actually think I pick up just as much as we're trying to figure out the questions for each week, you know, there, like I said, we're both fairly new, so we have to like really dig and be like, okay, well, what is it about this subject? That's going to resonate with the rest of the authors out there.
What do they want to know versus what do we want to know? And how can. Make those two meet in the middle. I mean, like Kelly said so many book recommendations, that's one of the biggest things. And knowing that the people who are recommending these books are also looking for the same things.
And these books how to do plots twists how to fix pacing, how to. You know, pull off this character. I mean, there's so many things that go into well, I guess not go into, but we get so many things from these conversations each time, whether it be something small or something [00:07:00] huge. And I think that's the biggest part of it.
The biggest takeaway.
David Gwyn: I love that. I think too, that's, that's really the way to build that community of writers. And I think what's so great about what you're doing is, you know, the typical way people try to build communities, they send out tweets or they tweet their books or linked to an article they wrote or.
Something along those lines. And what I think is so interesting about what you're doing is that way you're building community around these unique questions. Has that always been the case with this chat was, is this like a newer iteration? Did you decide right from the beginning to start with these questions and, and can you give us an example of like one or two of those kind of big ideas or unique ideas that you think about for each of them?
Tobie Carter: I always say we're throwing the net out there. You know, we have a document that we kind of go through and be like, okay, this is what we talked about last year. You know, certain things are I'm going to say certain prompts are ones that we should be talking about all the time, you know, throughout the years.
And some are just [00:08:00] kind of thrown in there where like, oh, you know, this would be something fun to learn about the questions. When it comes to picking questions, I feel like there are ones that every chat ask, whether you're doing like a science fiction chat Mom's writer's club chat, a 5:00 AM chat.
There are ones that everybody has answers to that. Really spur that engagement. So everybody starts talking, but there are ones that are specific that I feel like we really have to dig deep and find out the answers to first so that we can kind of guide people, you know, they're having trouble.
David Gwyn: Kelly, can you talk a little bit about the, the questions that you come up with , this feels like a lengthy process. Does it take you a while to come up with all those questions..
Kelly Malacko: It actually really depends on the topic. Like sometimes we have the questions way in advance and like, oh, this makes sense.
And, you know, it's sort of a broader topic that you can sort of pick out. I think we do six [00:09:00] questions and then kind of a unique introduce yourself question every time. So sometimes it's really hard, but some of them are a little. More vague. Like the last chat we did was about voice and it's not really like you know, there's not an exact formula for finding your voice and it's, it's a little more hard to nail down.
So those questions were a little tricky to come up with. One thing that I think was really great that I think Tobie brought this into the fold. She really focuses on one question that is sort of character driven. So it's like you know, if you're well, one of my questions for next week, and maybe this is giving it away, this is a spoiler.
One of our questions is like if your antagonists had a smell, what would that smell be? And I think it's just something like, kind of a little bit out there, but to make you think about your characters and how these kind of bigger topics, because the topic is Incorporating all five senses into your writing.
So, you know, it's just something that makes you [00:10:00] think about your own work and how these questions might be. You know, help you with whatever where you're working on at the moment. I
David Gwyn: think that's a great way of putting it. I think that, that I haven't really thought about it until you started talking about that, but I really think that's, what's so interesting to me is a question like that, that you're just, it makes you rethink about.
What you're writing and just a different way. And I even think some of the, some of the craft questions, I find myself answering them and thinking to myself, like, wait, how do I do that? You know what I mean? And then like, sharing, like, sharing those ideas about like what I'm doing and having others share.
And I'm like, wait, that's way better than what I'm doing. I think is so useful and so much fun to, to take part in, like I said, you know, And you get to meet a lot of people. There's a lot of people that I met through thrills and chills that I keep in touch with about just writing and I, that I've met.
And we continue to have those conversations. So I think it's just a great community. And so my next question is are you planning on doing anything? And not that I'm [00:11:00] saying that this isn't enough, but I'm just curious if there's, if you see this headed somewhere, is there something else that you're working on?
Is there like an iteration of this that you see at some point in the future?
Kelly Malacko: I don't think we have like a, a big master plan in the works here, but I think we just want to continue to build this community and kind of, you. Maybe help other writers grow and connect. We incorporated another hashtag that we call, show us your dark, where on the week that we don't chat, people can just share a little snippet of what they're working on.
And we kind of give it a little positivity pass. Okay. You know, kind of play up your strengths as well, because sometimes it's a little bit isolating writing and you start to doubt yourself or what you're doing this for. So we want to just make sure we encourage people to keep on going. And we have talked about having like a, an in-person meetup at a, at a writer's conference or something as well, but [00:12:00] we're sort of waiting to the world levels that out a bit.
David Gwyn: No, that makes sense. I, I think too, Met with a few writers over zoom a couple of weeks ago. And we kind of had the same conversation, which was like, well, now when we go to conferences with we'll actually know people, hopefully who are going there and it won't be nearly as awkward. Right. So what, what other communities are you a part of?
Do you have like a writing group, a critique group? Like what other things outside of this community, are you a part of Toby?
Tobie Carter: Oh, sure. Well of course this one I participated in the mom's writer's club. I actually not only did Kelly and I start the thrills and chills, but I was not placed into a critique group yet, and I was invited into her.
And since I do write, you know, in another genre, I think part in some of their chats occasionally, but then that this one.
David Gwyn: That's great. And Kelly, what about you?
Kelly Malacko: Yeah. The same thing where like Toby said, we're in the same [00:13:00] writers group and that has actually been a real help for me too.
I it's just, it's so nice to have a group of authors that you can bounce ideas off of. And who will read through your work? You know, they can pinpoint exactly where they lost interest or what really intrigues them, or it kind of gives you, you know, it helps you out when you're going back into your editing and, and that has been probably the biggest help for me outside of thrills and chills.
Yeah. I participate in the mom's writer's club, too. And a few of the writers who are in thrills and chills have a prompts and comps chat that they've just started to. So if you're looking for a book comp for your own work, you can join that chat. And that's really helpful too. Yeah, that's cool.
Yeah, there's just so many things. There's kind of little corners of the writing community on Twitter. You just started to have to dig around and you [00:14:00] find all these little gems. That's really great.
David Gwyn: Yeah. I liked the way that you phrased that, like those little corners, especially on Twitter and, and other parts of the internet, because I feel like more and more.
I now that I'm searching them out, I find a lot more and I think it's a great place. And that's really why I wanted to have you on is, you know, it's, it's about building a community of people who are interested in the same thing that you are, especially something online where it doesn't, you don't have to find someone in your town anymore.
Who also is it also writes thrillers or suspense or whatever it is, obviously you're both in the moms writer's club and so. I do have to ask because I I'm a parent myself. I have a two year old and a three month old. And so time is time is minimal to say the least. So I, as, as parents yourself, I mean, how do you find the time to write?
Where do you, is there, do you have a process? Do you have a place to do it? Do you have a time to do it or is it. You squeeze in whenever you can get
Tobie Carter: well I have [00:15:00] two kids, two crazy little girls, so there are three and five. The five-year-old old is in school currently.
The three-year-old not yet, but she does go to like one of those day. So normally I'm, I'm up at six. I'm not up early enough for the 5:00 AM. writer's club. But I, you know, I get them off to school. I come back, I write until until about one 30 and then I start kind of my pickup. Like I pick up my youngest first and then since my school, my daughter, my five-year-old goes to a stem school.
Everybody. You were dropped off, they don't do any buses. So we have to sit in the pickup line for about an hour. So I get there an hour early and you know, sometimes I'll read if I'm plotting out a story, which I like to say potty, and I'm kind of like a planter. I, I get like my, you know, my goal, motivation, conflict, all of that down, but I'll sit into the pickup line and And kind of plot out [00:16:00] some ideas during that time.
That's great. Same thing. It's one of them has gymnastics. I'll go to that. I'll plot out while I'm, while I'm waiting for that, come home, you know, do all the normal parents of feeding them. They then, you know, reading so on and so forth. And then once they're in bed, I'm back to my writing.
David Gwyn: Kelly, what about you?
Kelly Malacko: Yeah, I have two girls as well. My kids are a little bit older, which is nice. I like to say that they're in the sweet spot right now. They're like they're 12 and nine, so no, we're not into like the teenage years yet, but they can kind of take care of themselves for the most part, which is just perfect.
But I get up early. I am sort of an unofficial 5:00 AM writer. I, you know, make my coffee and sit down and start writing right away. And then I get them off to school and I, I do have a part-time job. I work at a gym. So that's actually nice because it's a good balance for sitting in front of the computer and my [00:17:00] sort of my other hobby or job.
So yeah, I, I guess I'm mostly early morning writer. If I get a chance I sneak in sometime in the afternoon. And I'm kind of like Toby too. I'm sort of plotting things out, like as I'm folding laundry or making supper or whatever. And my husband is actually a police officer, so I'm always like dropping things into the conversation, like, you know, picking his brain to do this, you know, how would that happen?
So, yeah, we have weird conversations in our head. We'll say things, but wow.
David Gwyn: It helped me. Nice. Well, we are, we are like a serious girl gang here because my two are girls as well. So that is quite the troop we have going on.
So we've talked about why building community is so important, how it's shaped Toby and Kelly's writing and can help us all grow as writers. It also makes the writing process more enjoyable. The only way to make this whole writing thing happened is by continuing to do. And [00:18:00] so these groups not only help with craft, which is important, but also help us as writers keep going.
So if you haven't yet joined the thrills and chills chat or another group or formed your own it's time in the next section, I asked them how they started. I'm always amazed by the diversity of how people come to writing Toby and Kelly's stories are so different and made me think of my own origin story while you're listening.
Think about your story about how and why you came to writing, because identifying your why can be a powerful motivator?
So when, when did you start writing? Did you always know you wanted to be writers or is this something that you've kind of picked up in more recent years?
Tobie Carter: I actually did not have any like, aspiration, to write or anything like that. I was, oh gosh, I guess age myself.
I was 28 and my husband had just deployed and I was rocking one of my kids to sleep and [00:19:00] scrolling on Instagram. Cause I obviously had nothing better, but I saw a picture, a friend had posted of the lock bridge in Paris. And it was literally like a light turned on. Like I saw a story and just kind of formed from there and I wrote that story down.
And of course, you know, as far as stories go, it was just fantastic. But no, it just spurred my love for writing. And I've written four books since, and it's, I'm, it's nonstop. I'm constantly getting new ideas. I love it, but yes, I didn't have any any schooling outside of, you know, the normal college classes like English 1 0 1 and one of the two, but for me it was just kind of one of those things that organically happened for one singular moment.
David Gwyn: That's great. And Kelly, what about you?
Kelly Malacko: Yeah, I, I guess I've always kind of. Being a writer. When [00:20:00] I, when I went to school, I sort of thought, you know, I can't just take an English degree cause that's not smart. I have to get a job. So I went into journalism and communications and I worked in journalism for a little while and it wasn't really a good fit for me.
I kind of, I felt like I got a little bit jaded working in that environment. And so I switched into. Marketing and communications. And then I started writing fiction shortly after. Well, I guess when my youngest was just starting in kindergarten and I kind of saw this little pocket of time opening up, I was like, I'm going to fill that right away.
So, yeah. So I guess it's been the last four or five years that I've kind of been. Dedicated to writing fiction and just making sure that I carve out a little bit of time to do that every day and kind of make it a priority. [00:21:00]
David Gwyn: Yeah, I think that's great. I, I, it's so funny to hear the stories because I feel like that's a lot of people who kind of come back to writing.
I was, I was talking to Allison Buccola who just came out with a book two weeks ago, I guess now. And she kind of said the same thing. She went to law school. She was like, I'm going to do like the normal. The, the reasonable thing, the mature thing and not right. And then kind of came back to it when she had kids.
And I think it's just this interesting trend that I keep hearing about people who some, you know, some obviously go right into writing and, and just stick with it and others, they come back to it when they have kids. And I I'm so curious about it because it seems like. Life would get too hectic to write when people have kids.
And for some reason it feels like people come back to writing, which I think is just so interesting. And did that line up for either of you? I mean, w how old were your kids, I guess Toby, you had the idea when you were rocking your, your daughter to sleep. Kelly, it sounds like your kids, I mean, this is like four or five years ago, so your kids were kind of right in that hectic time period.
And it just seems [00:22:00] like the worst time to pick up a writing. I mean it, it just seems like there are so many better times to do it. But it feels like maybe we're just like call you're called to, to write this thing and you, you know some of those that time to do it as, as little time as possible.
Right. So my next question may be a little bit random, but I'm, I'm actually curious I work with a creative writing group. I'm a middle school teacher, so I have a creative writing group in my school. And I'm curious if there was one piece of. Writing advice that you wish you either got early on or something that I can pass on to the youth of America?
What, what is that like? Is there like one piece of writing advice you would give to a middle schooler? Kelly, why don't you go first this time? You've got, you got kids about this age, so I have a
Kelly Malacko: middle school. What do I tell her all the time? Yeah, honestly, I guess the biggest thing is to read. I think that's probably where you learn how to write or for me, [00:23:00] that's where I kind of just learned the basics of like plotting and characterization and, you know, you just kind of.
You almost mimic what you read. And I know, especially in the beginning, when I was probably in middle grade, I was, you know, writing my own books that were highly plagiarized from the latest novel that I had just read. I hope that I've grown since then, but yeah, I think just reading and going for it.
I think a lot of kids have laptops now for school. And both of my girls actually love to write stories and I let them go for it. Like I know maybe computer time is not always encouraged in every household, but I don't know. I just think if you have that creativity in and you just get it out there.
And I think if you stick with it, maybe it will lead to something later on.
David Gwyn: Yeah. I feel like there's so many transferable skills when it comes to writing. Toby, what about you? What advice [00:24:00] would you give?
Tobie Carter: Well, I would definitely piggyback on what Kelly said about reading, you know, kind of widely, but for me specifically, I think.
Okay. At that age is so important to know that whatever story that you have in you is going to be for somebody, you know, somebody you might think, oh, this sounds so stupid, or nobody's going to want to read this, but. That story is in you, for a reason, regardless if it's for you specifically, or for somebody who's going to read it five years from now.
Like if there's something that's important to you or that you have that, I just want to write this down. I want to get it out. I want somebody to see it and may not be for everybody, but it's going to be for somebody and that somebody who's reading it may really, really need to hear what you have to say.
So I think that at that age, you know, kids are thinking, be so mean to each other about, you know, our interests and the things [00:25:00] that make us happy or the things that we're interested in. And I think it's just being truthful to yourself into the story that you have that's in you and making sure that you get it down on paper because it will, it will resonate with them.
David Gwyn: Yeah, I love that I will pass along that message to, to my students. I think, too, that I love both of you kind of said about like that validation and also this like creativity and just, I think as a society, Down on creativity as it has to be for something, or it has to do something. And like, sometimes just being creative is just to be creative.
Like nobody gets mad at someone for watching Netflix for four hours. Right. Right. Like if someone wants to sit down and type a story, everyone's like, what are you doing? So I think that's great. And I think too, like what are one of the things. Stressing to them is like that they don't have to get it right.
You know, that that's that I think that validation piece, that creativity piece it's like, yeah. I can tell you, you know, some tips and tricks along the way, but like you don't, it doesn't have to be perfect. You don't have to get it right. You just have to, to, to get it [00:26:00] out. I think that's, that's awesome.
That's good advice. So as we, as we kind of wrap up here, My first question for both of you is like, are there any books, movies, other resources that you suggest for aspiring writers, anything that you can think of that helped you along the way or continues to help you as you continue on your, your writing career?
Kelly, do you want to go first?
Kelly Malacko: I love writing books. I love reading about writing, which is kind of funny, but there's so many great ones out there right now. And some of my favorites are story genius by Lisa Cron. And one that I think was really special just if you're in any kind of creative field is big magic by Elizabeth Gilbert.
I guess one of the token writing books that everyone loves is on writing by Stephen King as well. But there's so many great ones and there's so many great podcasts like this one and, and The shit, no one tells you about writing. That's a great one that a lot of people are really loving right now, [00:27:00] too.
So there's so many different places to get information and it's just a great time to
David Gwyn: be a writer. Yeah. I think that that's well said. And Bianca Marais, who does the shit, no one tells you about writing. I, I got to interview her for this podcast a couple of weeks ago and she is she's a lot of fun.
I mean, she is like dynamic. So I highly recommend anytime someone asks about like podcasts, I'm like, listen to the shit you, no one tells you about writing podcasts. It's a lot of fun and they got a lot of good stuff going on over there. I know some, some new stuff coming up, so definitely if you, if you're not already listening to that, for sure you should be
Toby, what about you?
Any other, any other recommendations?
Tobie Carter: Of course piggybacking on her, the save the cat writes a novel by Jessica Brody. That's a big one. I actually just picked up creating character arc by KM Weiland. Honestly, thesaurus books where it's like the emotional thesaurus, the positive traits, the conflict Angela Ackerman those are some ones that would help with the actual craft of writing.
Of course, Stephen King [00:28:00] on writing is the big one, but there are so many out there. Emotional practice fiction first, five pages. Bird by bird. Those are some, I have one, my TDR have not yet read them, but I mean, like she said, podcast, everything there's so much out there that can help.
David Gwyn: I feel like it's, it's almost overwhelming at times.
And I, I ask this question more to find trends in what people are using and then, then like a, a list, because I feel like you could just probably spend a lifetime reading books about writing and not actually get any writing done. So last thing oh, that kind of like last two things here, which is where can people find you?
Tobie Carter: I'm mainly on Twitter at @TobieCarter6190. I also have an Instagram. My handle is TobieCarter.Writer. And then of course, like everyone, I have a Tik Tok, not that it's any good, but that's [00:29:00] AuthorTobieCarter,
David Gwyn: . Nice. And I'll link to that . So that people can find you.
And then Kelly, what about you?
Kelly Malacko: Yeah, I'm on Twitter and Instagram, both as. @Kellymalacko and you can just search the #thrillsandchills to find out. More about our chats or #showusyourdark as
David Gwyn: well. Great Kelly. No, no Tik Tok. You're not with the, with up with the kids.
Kelly Malacko: I know.
Tell me and like everybody,
but I do occasionally fall down that rabbit hole, some videos, but I try not to.
David Gwyn: Yeah, but my wife convinced me to download tick talk and I was like, I just lost like 40 minutes of my life. Like where did it go? I had to delete the app. I was like, I can't, I'm like, that's just a place. I can't go. At least not yet.
I already lose enough time on Twitter and doom scrolling there. So my last question is if there was kind of one thing you'd want people to take away from this conversation, what would be that one thing
Tobie Carter: I would just [00:30:00] say that there is a place for you. You know, whether it's with our chat on Twitter, tick-tock wherever there there's a community that you can get linked up with with other people who, you know, have the same goals and dreams. It's just putting your foot out there, stepping in to I don't want to say stepping into the field and just letting it happen.
Kelly Malacko: Yeah. I agree. I, I think if you put yourself out there a little bit, that's kind of one of the best ways to grow. And like for us, I guess we couldn't really find that niche that we were looking for. And so we created it. So I guess if you're having trouble finding yourself, Maybe there's a need for a new spot, so maybe you can carve out your own little corner.
David Gwyn: Yeah. That's a great message. So thank you so much, both of you for taking the time to chat with me. I, I, I feel like you're, you're doing such a great job of building a community with, with the writers, both on Twitter. And it sounds like in other [00:31:00] communities as well. So thank you for that. And I'm looking forward to the next thrills and chills chat and.
For people who are listening, I'll, I'll drop in the in the notes when the next one is so that, you know, and you can join us so we can all chat on Twitter. So thanks again for being here.
Kelly Malacko: Thanks for
David Gwyn: having us.
What a great way to end that interview. There's a place for you. You just need to find it, or you need to. As someone who doesn't have people in my personal life who right. Finding thrills and chills on Twitter and a online weekly writing group, it's made a huge difference in helping me stay focused, committed, and helped me improve my craft.
Then the next part of this interview series, I'm talking to Julie rein. She's a top writer on medium who wants to write novels. I asked her specifically about how important medium can be for fiction writers and how writers of all kinds. Well, they're self-published or traditionally published can use medium to build a writing platform of readers who obsess over their work.
You [00:32:00] won't want to miss this, so be sure to subscribe. So, you know, when the next episode drops, I'll see you then.